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Not as safe as all that

July 28, 2011

On July 10 there was an article in the Times-Herald Record by Steve Israel regarding New York’s fracking regulations.

Recent Governor Cuomo appointee Joe Martens, commissioner of the Department of Environmental Conservation, is quoted as saying, “I believe fracking can be done safely.” Regarding the ban in the Syracuse and NYC watersheds on the basis that they provide unfiltered water, Martens said, “These are very unique areas, and we’re recognizing them as such with a total ban.”

This raises the questions: If it is safe, why does it have to be banned in these areas? Should the rest of us install water filters? What type of filter is capable of removing harmful chemicals? Where can I get one?

Another question for Mr. Martens comes to mind. Have you considered the impact drilling will have on habitat?

A general question to our leaders: Are the majority of jobs created by drilling filled with locals or transients?

Just asking.

Timothy J. Manzolillo
Cochecton, NY

Good point!

Drilling is safe and should be done in these watersheds as well as the rest of the state. Also, why are these cities above putting in filtration systems? Why does the world revolve around them? We all know the day will come when the planet is so populated that it will be necessary to filter the water. It is inevitable. It will cost less to do it know that twenty years from now. There are no real reasons to not drill in these waterhseds, except for fear and loathing.

ah yes

the mindset. The planet will be destroyed anyway, so we may as well get used to it, accelerate the process, and reap the material benefits for ourselves while we can.

And pretty much every other city already DOES filter their water. GOD FORBID there be any water left on Earth that isn't clean enough not to need filtration! How DARE anyone want their water to be clean, can't they see there is profit to be made here???

Why does the world, in your self-pious worldview, revolve around YOU, Natural??? Why do you turn a blind eye to the long list of documented issues with drilling and the fact that EPA has upped the ante in calling for a major study and then demand that land and water that is not yours be befouled in the name of your profit? Why does your desire for free enterprise and unlimited profit trump other's right to clean water and a healthy environemnt? And how does one who speaks of "property rights" rationalize taking, contaminating, and profiting from that which is not theirs??? Self-anointed dictator types such as yourself preach property rights with the highest possible degree of hypiocrisy, clamoring for your own porperty rights while seeking to usurp those of everyone around you. Your version of "land rights" may have flown in past times, but unfortunately for your likes, the rest of us will not be packing up and marching off to the Reservation anytime soon.

However, the "rest of us"

will continue to need huge amounts of energy. You are feeding the beast you so despise. It matters not how much you write and whine, just as long as you stop and fill up the old BMW every few days. You're supporting drilling and fracturing, and even deep water drilling. Ouch!

No

Actually I don't support drilling or fracturing, especially not without being smart about what, where, how, when, why, for whom, etc. Yes, we all need energy. Most of us don't need as much as we currently use. And there are obviously better ways to get energy than drilling fracking.

It's for the ignorance of people like you that some of us must be so vigilant. The world for you is oh so black and white when your free lunch is at stake, yet when it is not in your favor all we here is "yes, but", "yes, but", "yes, but" all day long. In this life you don't get to put a blanket label on everyone else and then nitpick for teh few rotting scraps that can be twisted to support your argument. In this case, because you care only about easy profit, you say that we all need energy, therefore we "must drill" and to say otherwise presents some internal conflict. You don't even realize your own absurdity.

Gas drilling is just another excuse for profit for the same energy industry that prevents our nation from stepping away from bad energy policy after bad energy policy. Gas is not an "alternative", is not "clean", and is not "green"- it's just a new name for the same old fossil fuels, emitting the same old pollutants, extracted the same old way that it's been for 2 centuries. It is not a bridge to the future, it's living in the past as long as possible because there is still a profit to be made.

Natural gas is not a bridge to the future.

It is the future. You are supporting fracturing and deep water drilling when you use gasoline, heating oil, electricity, natural gas, and even plastics and fertilizers, and so many more products. You say one thing, but your actions say another. Maybe it makes you feel good to claim you are against these things, but you really are not, regardless of your protests. You enjoy these products and their advantages the same as the rest of us. We simply man-up and admit it. As for "the ignorance of people like you" statement; was that courteous? The paper requests that we remain courteous, while insults and derogatory comments are prohibited. You would not want to be banned from this site. Social graces are always important.

it is the future

when you're living in the past.

In truth, it is just another fuel source that we will be moving away from, although so far not as rapidly as we should due to the political influence of big oil which is keeping us mired in fossil fuel "dependency" (since their record profits depend on it).

Obi Ain't Afraid

Of being banned, that is. He is deathly afraid of the things that have never happened but might happen such as aquifer contamination. He does know however that this paper will never ban his hypocritical rants against drilling just because he must resort to insults for lack of a well reasoned argument. They might however ban us for the very same and wouldn't that just suck? Drilling, my friends, is inevitable. The better news is that everything will be fine.

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

I'm the onlyone here that uses any facts or science or supporting a rguments for anything.

And you continue your psychotic denial of that which has already happened, and we all know about, yet you expect anyone to take you seriously.

Oh, and I'm still well aware that never once when I ask you to ecxplain anything about your viewpoint, or hit you with a tough question, can you ever respond to or address it. Case in point. Nuff said. You have nothing.

And yeah, gotta love how you have no supporting arguments therefore must fall back on "since you need energy, you support..." non-argument. But here, I'll play: since you want to make money from energy so much, you obviously much be diligently looking into alternatives to fossil fuels and how to profit from them, right? And since we all need stone products, soil, lumber, wood to make paper, and water, as well as a place for our waste, you obviously would be in support of any plan to quarry your yard for stone, cut down all the trees on your land for lumber and pulpwood, divert your water supply to sell to Deer Park (you will be provided with a water treatment system to recycle your own waste into potable water for re-use, free of charge!), and strip the soil on your land to sell as topsoil, and then backfill the quarry with trash and sewage sludge, right? Oh, and we all need lumber, paper, and chemicals, so your new neighbors on all four sides will be large industrial plants that operate 24/7 and will produce a steady stream of truck and commuter traffic on your road. But you understand. We all need these things, as you well know, so you obviosuly would be 100% behind these plans. And since we all need these things, and we all need jobs, you understand that eminent domain will come into play because these are products and materials we all need and use, and because the local economy is so depressed that we must build these facilities to provide quality jobs for all!

Wait, what's that I hear? Not in YOUR back yard??

You really don't get it.

We would love to have business and commerce in the area. Bring it on. Then we will make a good living and drive three or four hours for our peace and quiet and recreation, like you and your obstructionist friends have done for decades. We may even try to stop progress in our new second home area so it remains quiet, regardless of how the indigenous population suffers.

That would mean it would be seven or eight hours away from the home base of our weekenders coming from the Big Apple and North Jersey, so that just might be why they resist progress here so bitterly.

"Then we will make a good

"Then we will make a good living"

As your taxes and COL go up and up?

" and drive three or four hours for our peace and quiet and recreation,"

I dont' drive anywhere for these unless I want to, thank god. And my family's been here since 1890, so I'm pretty sure we're not "weekenders". How about you drive 3 or 4 hours for your damn money instead? Or just move, since you hate rural living so much?

Oh, and there you go uttering that "obstructionist" word again just like the man in the mirror. Obstruct the truth, obstruct property rights, obstruct our livelihoods, obstruct our quality of life, obstruct our roads (literally), obstruct the future, obstruct clean (or cleaner, at least) energy, etc. all for your lazy self's dollar.

No, seriously, you dont get it; you want to foist your will on everyone else regardless of consequences just to make a buck, and you hate people from the city and suburbs because you envy their money. Why the hell don't you just move there so you can have your lazy get-paid-a-ton-for-nothing job, instead of wishing those jobs would come here and ruin what we've got?

I would consider it the unparalleled hallmark of ignorance to propose that bulldozing more of the planet, destroying more habitat and open space and farmland and increasing energy consumption and pollution, just so that people like you can have city jobs without moving to the city, is a remotely viable option.

Yet again you show your true colors of greed, selfishness, materialism, and hatred of rural life. If you hate it so much, again I ask: why don't you just pack up and leave and head for a place that gives you the high-paying jobs, high taxes, climbing home sale prices despite the housing "bust", traffic, pollution, sprawl, Walmart every 2 miles, espresso shops, etc. that you so strongly desire? What is holding you back from your dreams? You are responsible for your own happiness.

And you have your head squarely in your posterior if you think you can destroy the quality of life and livelihood of everyone around you, as well as destroy our already-stretched-too-thin-to-support-all-of-us environment, and take that which is not yours, all just for your own material benefit. You show yourself to be far worse of a human being, and a threat to our region and lifestyle and quality of life, than any of those "weekenders" you so despise (or envy, as the case may be) and blame all your troubles on.

You loathe the city people and sububanites, yet wish to become one of them, or just like them. Have you ever talked to a psychologist?

This area is already being developed.

Look at the hoards pouring in from NYC and North Jersey. Gas drilling will slow that development down as land increases in value and land owners gain royalties, the need to sell land will decrease, as well as the affordability of it. You do not want the area turned into suburbia? Support drilling! Otherwise, they are coming by land, air and river. Enrollment in our schools is dropping rapidly. We need what drilling offers.

It also seems that you are still struggling with the concept of being courteous. What will the editors think of your derogatory statements? There is no need to be so personally insulting.

yep, thanks for confirmation

once again not addressing any questions asked of you and just asserting that drilling is the only way forward. And then going for the usual distraction techniques.

Plus, you just said you WANT development. Now you seem to say you don't, other than gas drilling (which IS development). Likewise, you complain that our school enrollment is dropping, but you don't want "hoards" pouring in from NYC and NOrth Jersey. So which is it- is our population declining, or is it rapidly growing as these "hoards" "pour in"? You seriously need to figure out some consistency with your arguments.

But, that is not the way of those seeking out the easy buck. Promise anything as long as it will get you your way and make you your easy dollar.

Are there parts of the system taht are broken? You bet. But adding to and perpetuating that broken system is not that answer, however much your lust for money, or your laziness or ineffectiveness in trying to make a living, may say otherwise.

Yet again,

you demonstrate that you do not understand much of life around Wayne County. We have lots of people buying property and either having second homes or retiring here. We do not have many people moving in with school age kids that want their kids to be educated and make careers here. Our school enrollments are dropping. We need jobs that will sustain families. Organic farming and cleaning rich folk' homes doesn't cut it.

Science?

I marvel at how fear and hearsay are Obi's science and examples. This guy is too much.

rural destruction

How consistent of the UnNatural and his lackey Hickman to show their disdain for the rural way of Life......They profess to want the cumulative impacts (some positive re: money in their pockets, but mostly negative re: water contaminations, trucks 24/7, humongous well pads with the consequences of noise and debris,etc)
How money just overwhelms these guys. It is a signal for all of us to protect this region LOCALLY.
These boys would have industry sitting in the fields and be happy for it.
Shame on them not to love this place much much more.

that's pretty much

what I've been saying all along.

These lackeys openly admit they want this region to be industrialized and suburbanized. They make no bones about it. That is their agenda. They do not want to live here, they want to live on Long Island, just without moving there. They want to live in suburbia, they just don't want the inconvenience of the "city people" who vacation or own second homes or retire here. While I agree that we also need to protect our region, resources, and way of life from being overrun by developers, industrialization is also development. Increased traffic, land clearing, well pads, pipelines, glowing gas flares, dust, leaking gas, noisy compressor stations, etc. is no better use of the land than growing houses for rich people.

So it boils down to, these guys hate rural life, want more money, want the conveniences of an urban or suburban environment, and do not value (or perhaps even loathe) the qualities of life, peace and quiet, natural beauty, and outdoor recreation that a rural area of natural beauty provides, but have been unwilling to take responsibility for their own life or happiness and make the move; and yet, they have the narcissism, lack of regard for anyone or anything but themseves, and chest-pounding bravado (plus the overbearing wealth of the fossil fuel industry to back them up- let's see them voice these same opinions without it)to suggest that they should be allowed to foist their vision of industrialization and suburbanization and greater wealth for themselves upon the rest of us, our resources, and our environment; all so that they may have their cake and eat it too, without having to work for any of it and without having to take on the responsibility or inconvenience of moving to a place that would provide them with a ready-made place in the lifestyle they covet.

Or put another way, they do not want to work and they want the rest of us to sacrifice our land, our way of life, our resources, and our environment all so that they can collect their monthly check in the mail and live a Rockland COunty or LI or NJ life without the burden of moving there.Their strategy: propagate obvious lies, deny the existence of data or records, parrot unfounded industry claims, clamor that marcellus gas is the only option for energy in the future (anything but NG is a dirty word!), try to baffle us with BS ("anyone who uses energy is a hypocrite if they don't support marcellus drilling"- again, dont' say any of those dirty words about cleaner, greener, more sustainable energy sources; or energy conservation, for that matter), and repeat over and over that shale gas is "clean and green" and ignore a growing body of evidence that places it just slightly above old reliable King Coal. Oh, and put a "future" spin on it, and hope nobody notices that NG is actually just another fossil fuel and that coal gas has been used for lighting since the 1790s!

Could you repeat that, Obie?

It seemed like a lot of words, but said nothing.

nothing

except "you're wrong", "you lie", "you're lazy", "you care about no one and nothing but yourself", "you're materialistic in the extreme", "you're an urban yuppie trapped in a rural person's life", and "you want the world to conform to you instead of confronting and fixing your own life".

Deal with it. It's not my fault that you fit the mold of an opportunistic big oil corporate capitalist "corporations have the same rights as people", "relative morality" type to a T. The problem I have is with the sleazy trash materialism, laziness, greed, and lack of regard for humanity and the world around us that you stand for. I don't give a fling one way or the other about "you" in the personal sense.

Are you playing by the rules, Obie?

Let the editors decide if your insults are acceptable. You seem to be losing your cool. Relax and think of soothing things, like big trucks and pipelines?

some say insults

and others look right through you.

Apparently you've run out of lies and manipulations to support your pro-drlling stance and now are left to make pot-shots and cry "insult" because you know you can't make a valid point on any one of the multitide of issues I've volleyed your way with no return whatsoever.

Losing my cool? No, just exposing in an open public forum, for all to see, the admant pro drillers for what they are at face value.

And thank you

for that.

The Unnatural at her best~~Lies

keep up the same rantings Unnatural....You do not convince anyone. The pathetic deal made with multinationals you so admire shows how horrid a negotiator you are. Non protective and for a fraction what others have gotten....Amazing how a little money trumps all else !
Now todays story of the estimates being reduced perhaps 80%.,,,,,,What a joke you have become.
Oh, but jobsjobsjobs and moneymoneymoney,..Keep repeating your mantra...It seems to work for you.